Violence in the scriptures - Revision history

SpencerMarsh at 16:35, 26 October 2026

2026-10-26T16:35:47Z

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SpencerMarsh at 16:35, 26 October 2026

2026-10-26T16:35:32Z

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SpencerMarsh at 16:35, 26 October 2026

2026-10-26T16:35:08Z

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	<h1><b>Violence in the Scriptures</b></h1>		<h1><b>Violence in the Scriptures</b></h1>
	Violence in scripture is troubling for many believers. The following articles address issues related to violence in the scriptures.		{{Summary1}} Violence in scripture is troubling for many believers. The following articles address issues related to violence in the scriptures.

	~~{{Summary1}}~~
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Rcahoon at 17:27, 9 October 2026

2026-10-09T17:27:41Z

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	~~{{Main Page}}~~		<small> [[Abuse and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints\|Abuse and the Church]] \| <span style="color:#7BB375">The Church's Position</span></small>

			__NOTOC__

	{{Navigation:Scripture}}{{blankline}}		{{Navigation:Scripture}}{{blankline}}
	<h1><b>Violence in the Scriptures</b></h1>		<h1><b>Violence in the Scriptures</b></h1>
	Violence in scripture is troubling for many believers. The following articles address issues related to violence in the scriptures.		Violence in scripture is troubling for many believers. The following articles address issues related to violence in the scriptures.

			{{Summary1}}
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	\| title = === Do the scriptures endorse child abuse? ===		\| title = === Do the scriptures endorse child abuse? ===
	\| state =		\| state = closed
	\| content =		\| content =
	{{BMCentral\|title=How Abraham’s Sacrifice of Isaac Illuminates the Atonement\|url=https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/how-abrahams-sacrifice-of-isaac-illuminates-the-atonement\|number=412}}		{{BMCentral\|title=How Abraham’s Sacrifice of Isaac Illuminates the Atonement\|url=https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/how-abrahams-sacrifice-of-isaac-illuminates-the-atonement\|number=412}}
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	Some claim that God’s command of Abraham to slay Isaac is an example of divinely-endorsed child abuse. Anyone who knows the story is aware that the story is not about abusing Isaac. Rather, it is about God’s desire for Abraham to be willing to follow him despite hard trials. It also foreshadows the offering of God’s only begotten son—Jesus Christ—saving us in Gethsemane and on the cross.		Some claim that God’s command of Abraham to slay Isaac is an example of divinely-endorsed child abuse. Anyone who knows the story is aware that the story is not about abusing Isaac. Rather, it is about God’s desire for Abraham to be willing to follow him despite hard trials. It also foreshadows the offering of God’s only begotten son—Jesus Christ—saving us in Gethsemane and on the cross.

	== It is also claimed that God’s sending of Christ to be crucified instead of himself is such an example ==		==== <b> It is also claimed that God’s sending of Christ to be crucified instead of himself is such an example </b> ====
	In the case of Christ, some secular critics claim that God is an abuser by sending his son to die on the cross. The short answer is that Christ was foreordained to come to earth to redeem all mankind. He voluntarily gave himself in the pre-mortal council to become our Savior ({{s\|\|Moses\|4\|1-2}}; {{s\|\|Rev\|13\|8}}; {{s\|1\|Peter\|19\|21}}). Upon coming to earth, his agency was not taken away from him. He had the ability to lay down his life and to take it back up ({{s\|\|John\|10\|18}}). It was God’s plan from the beginning, through the supernal gift and voluntary sacrifice of a loving Savior.		In the case of Christ, some secular critics claim that God is an abuser by sending his son to die on the cross. The short answer is that Christ was foreordained to come to earth to redeem all mankind. He voluntarily gave himself in the pre-mortal council to become our Savior ({{s\|\|Moses\|4\|1-2}}; {{s\|\|Rev\|13\|8}}; {{s\|1\|Peter\|19\|21}}). Upon coming to earth, his agency was not taken away from him. He had the ability to lay down his life and to take it back up ({{s\|\|John\|10\|18}}). It was God’s plan from the beginning, through the supernal gift and voluntary sacrifice of a loving Savior.

SpencerMarsh at 03:50, 18 August 2026

2026-08-18T03:50:28Z

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	=== The text is making a lot of rhetorical points that go unnoticed without additional context ====		==== The text is making a lot of rhetorical points that go unnoticed without additional context ====
	{{s\|2\|Kings\|2\|23-25}} has a short account that reads:		{{s\|2\|Kings\|2\|23-25}} has a short account that reads:

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	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	<b>23-25</b>: The episode of the cursing of the boys of Bethel who jeered at the prophet seems shocking to modern readers. For the ancient reader it demonstrated that it was dangerous to behave disrespectfully toward a man of God. <b>24</b>: The narrator does not tell the content of Elisha’s curse, and whether or not he intended to kill the boys. Forty-two boys, "forty-two" is a number sometimes associated with death: Jehu kills forty-two victims <b>(10.14)</b>, and the Egyptian Book of the Dead mentions forty-two judges of the dead.<ref>Thomas Romer, "~~Commentary on~~ 2 Kings," ''The New Oxford Annotated Study Bible'', (ed.) Michael Coogan, Marc Z. Brettler, Carol A. Newsom, and Pheme Perkins (Oxford University Press~~: London, England~~, ~~2010~~), 536.</ref>		<b>23-25</b>: The episode of the cursing of the boys of Bethel who jeered at the prophet seems shocking to modern readers. For the ancient reader, it demonstrated that it was dangerous to behave disrespectfully toward a man of God. <b>24</b>: The narrator does not tell the content of Elisha’s curse, and whether or not he intended to kill the boys. Forty-two boys, "forty-two" is a number sometimes associated with death: Jehu kills forty-two victims <b>(10.14)</b>, and the Egyptian Book of the Dead mentions forty-two judges of the dead.<ref>Thomas Romer, "2 Kings," ''The New Oxford Annotated Study Bible'', ed. Michael Coogan, Marc Z. Brettler, Carol A. Newsom, and Pheme Perkins (Oxford University Press, 2018), 536.</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

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	In summary we have:		In summary we have:
			#A symbolic representation for death, indicating that there may be more symbolism being used behind the text.
	a) A symbolic representation for death, indicating that there may be more symbolism being used behind the text.		#Clear condemnation and mocking of the prophet, using culturally charged epithets to disparage the prophet.
	b) Clear condemnation and mocking of the prophet, using culturally charged epithets to disparage the prophet.		#No indication from the narrator as to what Elisha’s curse actually was. No indication as to whether he wanted this to happen.
	c) No indication from the narrator as to what Elisha’s curse actually was. No indication as to whether he wanted this to happen.		#A clear hint as to what the author’s intent was for the story: to teach ancient readers respect for the prophet.
	d) A clear hint as to what the author’s intent was for the story: to teach ancient readers respect for the prophet.
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	#'''Blasphemy''' ({{s\|\|Leviticus\|24\|10,23}})—God required the fidelity and faithfulness of the Israelites.		#'''Blasphemy''' ({{s\|\|Leviticus\|24\|10,23}})—God required the fidelity and faithfulness of the Israelites.
	#'''Cursing your parents''' ({{s\|\|Exodus\|21\|17}})—This also enforced the familial ideals of Israel		#'''Cursing your parents''' ({{s\|\|Exodus\|21\|17}})—This also enforced the familial ideals of Israel
	#'''Disobeying the judge or priest that mediates a specific case''' ({{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|17\|8-13}}) As noted in ''The New Oxford Annotated Bible'',		#'''Disobeying the judge or priest that mediates a specific case''' ({{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|17\|8-13}}) As noted in ''The New Oxford Annotated Bible'':

	<blockquote>		<blockquote>
	In the pre-Deuteronomic period, legal cases in which there was an absence of physical evidence or of witnesses were remanded to the local sanctuary, where the parties to the dispute would swear a judicial oath at the altar ({{s_short\|\|Deuteronomy\|19\|17}}; {{s\|\|Ex\|22\|7-11}}; {{s\|1\|Kings\|8\|31-32}}; note also {{s\|\|Ex\|21\|6}}). These two laws (17.2-7,8-13) thus fill the judicial void created by Deuteronomy's prohibition of the local sanctuaries (ch 12). Now, any case that requires recourse to the altar is remanded to the central sanctuary; all other cases, even capital ones, may be tried locally (vv {{s_short\|\|Deuteronomy\|19\|2-7}}).		In the pre-Deuteronomic period, legal cases in which there was an absence of physical evidence or of witnesses were remanded to the local sanctuary, where the parties to the dispute would swear a judicial oath at the altar ({{s_short\|\|Deuteronomy\|19\|17}}; {{s\|\|Ex\|22\|7-11}}; {{s\|1\|Kings\|8\|31-32}}; note also {{s\|\|Ex\|21\|6}}). These two laws (17.2-7,8-13) thus fill the judicial void created by Deuteronomy's prohibition of the local sanctuaries (ch 12). Now, any case that requires recourse to the altar is remanded to the central sanctuary; all other cases, even capital ones, may be tried locally (vv {{s_short\|\|Deuteronomy\|19\|2-7}}).

	<b>8.</b> These cases must be referred to the central sanctuary because, in the absence of witnesses o evidence, local officials cannot make a ruling. ''Between one kind of bloodshed and another'', the legal distinction between murder and manslaughter ({{s\|\|Ex\|21\|12-14}}; {{s\|\|Num\|35\|16-23}}). In each pair, he distinction is between premeditated or unintentional offenses. <b>9:</b> The tribunal at the sanctuary includes both priestly and lay members. The account of Jehosophat's setting up tribunals throughout Judah composed of lay and clerical judges reflects this law (({{s\|2\|Chr\|19\| 5-11}}).<ref>Bernard M. Levison, "~~Commentary on~~ Deuteronomy,'' in ''The New Oxford Annotated Bible'' (ed.) Michael Coogan, Marc Z. Brettler, Carol A. Newsom, Pheme Perkins (~~New York City, NY:~~ Oxford University Press, ~~2010~~), 278.</ref>		<b>8.</b> These cases must be referred to the central sanctuary because, in the absence of witnesses o evidence, local officials cannot make a ruling. ''Between one kind of bloodshed and another'', the legal distinction between murder and manslaughter ({{s\|\|Ex\|21\|12-14}}; {{s\|\|Num\|35\|16-23}}). In each pair, he distinction is between premeditated or unintentional offenses. <b>9:</b> The tribunal at the sanctuary includes both priestly and lay members. The account of Jehosophat's setting up tribunals throughout Judah composed of lay and clerical judges reflects this law (({{s\|2\|Chr\|19\| 5-11}}).<ref>Bernard M. Levison, "Deuteronomy,'' in ''The New Oxford Annotated Bible'', ed. Michael Coogan, Marc Z. Brettler, Carol A. Newsom, Pheme Perkins (Oxford University Press, 2018), 278.</ref>
	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

SpencerMarsh at 20:31, 18 February 2026

2026-02-18T20:31:55Z

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GregSmith: /* Do the scriptures endorse child abuse? */

2024-05-27T05:10:16Z

Do the scriptures endorse child abuse?

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	= Do the scriptures endorse child abuse? =		= Do the scriptures endorse child abuse? =
			{{Navigation:Abuse}}

	{{BMCentral\|title=How Abraham’s Sacrifice of Isaac Illuminates the Atonement\|url=https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/how-abrahams-sacrifice-of-isaac-illuminates-the-atonement\|number=412}}		{{BMCentral\|title=How Abraham’s Sacrifice of Isaac Illuminates the Atonement\|url=https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/how-abrahams-sacrifice-of-isaac-illuminates-the-atonement\|number=412}}

GregSmith: /* The scriptures condemn the taking of innocent life */

2024-05-26T06:14:23Z

The scriptures condemn the taking of innocent life

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	Scripture tells us that vengeance is God's ({{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|32\|35}}; {{s\|\|Romans\|12\|19}}; {{s\|\|Mormon\|3\|15}} {{s\|\|Mormon\|8\|20}}). Save in very specific circumstances (e.g., self-defence, or defence of another innocent), violence is not ours to inflict.		Scripture tells us that vengeance is God's ({{s\|\|Deuteronomy\|32\|35}}; {{s\|\|Romans\|12\|19}}; {{s\|\|Mormon\|3\|15}} {{s\|\|Mormon\|8\|20}}). Save in very specific circumstances (e.g., self-defence, or defence of another innocent), violence is not ours to inflict.

	=== The scriptures condemn the taking of innocent life ===		== The scriptures condemn the taking of innocent life ==
	A small sampling includes:		A small sampling includes:

GregSmith: /* But does God command us to be violent today? */

2024-05-26T06:14:15Z

But does God command us to be violent today?

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	</blockquote>		</blockquote>

	=== But does God command us to be violent today? ===		= But does God command us to be violent today? =

	One of the biggest reasons that people are concerned by the violence of God in scripture because humans are all too willing to use examples of ''divine'' violence as an excuse for their own violence.		One of the biggest reasons that people are concerned by the violence of God in scripture because humans are all too willing to use examples of ''divine'' violence as an excuse for their own violence.

GregSmith at 06:13, 26 May 2024

2024-05-26T06:13:41Z

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