Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5 - Revision history

GregSmith: /* Response to claim: 74-75 - Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods" */bot use legacy Detail template

2024-05-31T07:04:28Z

Response to claim: 74-75 - Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods": bot use legacy Detail template

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:04, 31 May 2024
Line 87:		Line 87:
	{{misinformation\|The Bible makes it clear that this ''was'' the truth, since God said so only a few verses later: "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" ({{b\|\|Genesis\|3\|22}}). If the authors wish to claim that Satan lied in this case, they must also accept that ''God'' then lied. Satan's lie was that spiritual and physical death would not result from partaking of the fruit.		{{misinformation\|The Bible makes it clear that this ''was'' the truth, since God said so only a few verses later: "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" ({{b\|\|Genesis\|3\|22}}). If the authors wish to claim that Satan lied in this case, they must also accept that ''God'' then lied. Satan's lie was that spiritual and physical death would not result from partaking of the fruit.
	}}		}}
	{{~~Detail~~\|Deification of man}}		{{Detail_old\|Deification of man}}

	==Response to claim: 76 - According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience"==		==Response to claim: 76 - According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience"==

GregSmith: /* top */Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

2024-04-13T20:13:58Z

top: Bot replace {{FairMormon}} with {{Main Page}} and remove extra lines around {{Header}}

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:13, 13 April 2024
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{~~FairMormon~~}}		{{Main Page}}
	{{H1		{{H1
	\|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5		\|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5

GregSmith: bot - remove old references code

2024-04-13T02:55:53Z

bot - remove old references code

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:55, 13 April 2024
Line 154:		Line 154:

	<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->		<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->

	~~==References==~~
	~~{{Reflist}}~~

GregSmith: bot replace scripture DC with D&C (old version of template couldn't use amperstand), replaced: {{s||DC| → {{s||D&C|

2024-04-12T23:54:54Z

bot replace scripture DC with D&C (old version of template couldn't use amperstand), replaced: {{s||DC| → {{s||D&C|

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:54, 12 April 2024
Line 117:		Line 117:
	The authors claim that Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression," and that Paul stated that death was the result of Adam's ''sin'', not ''transgression.''		The authors claim that Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression," and that Paul stated that death was the result of Adam's ''sin'', not ''transgression.''
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#{{s\|\|DC\|132\|26}}		#{{s\|\|D&C\|132\|26}}
	*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|12}}		*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|12}}
	*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|15}}		*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|15}}
Line 154:		Line 154:

	<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->		<!-- PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE -->

			==References==
			{{Reflist}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-#
\n +)

2017-10-21T03:28:35Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-#<br>\n +)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:28, 21 October 2017
Line 32:		Line 32:
	The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward." They claim that the decision by Adam and Eve to disobey the Father has been "continually commended" by LDS leaders.		The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward." They claim that the decision by Adam and Eve to disobey the Father has been "continually commended" by LDS leaders.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	~~#<br>~~
	*{{s\|\|Moses\|5\|10-11}}		*{{s\|\|Moses\|5\|10-11}}
	*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3:74. Smith notes that the Garden of Eden was located on the American continent.		*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3:74. Smith notes that the Garden of Eden was located on the American continent.

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

2017-10-15T22:38:09Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\#\* +#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:38, 15 October 2017
Line 84:		Line 84:
	Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods." The authors conclude: "is it wise to trust a promise from one who is called the 'father of lies'?"		Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods." The authors conclude: "is it wise to trust a promise from one who is called the 'father of lies'?"
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{s\|\|Genesis\|3\|3-5}}		#{{s\|\|Genesis\|3\|3-5}}
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|The Bible makes it clear that this ''was'' the truth, since God said so only a few verses later: "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" ({{b\|\|Genesis\|3\|22}}). If the authors wish to claim that Satan lied in this case, they must also accept that ''God'' then lied. Satan's lie was that spiritual and physical death would not result from partaking of the fruit.		{{misinformation\|The Bible makes it clear that this ''was'' the truth, since God said so only a few verses later: "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" ({{b\|\|Genesis\|3\|22}}). If the authors wish to claim that Satan lied in this case, they must also accept that ''God'' then lied. Satan's lie was that spiritual and physical death would not result from partaking of the fruit.
Line 96:		Line 96:
	According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience." The authors claim that this contradicts {{s\|1\|John\|3\|4}}, which states that "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."		According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience." The authors claim that this contradicts {{s\|1\|John\|3\|4}}, which states that "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{Ensign1\|author=Dallin H. Oaks\|date=November 1993\|article=The Great Plan of Happiness\|start=73}} {{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=3c4b425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}}		#{{Ensign1\|author=Dallin H. Oaks\|date=November 1993\|article=The Great Plan of Happiness\|start=73}} {{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=3c4b425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}}
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|The intent of this distinction is not to "minimize the severity" of Adam's act, but to high-light the fact that someone without a knowledge of good and evil is not morally culpable in the same sense as someone who has knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve did not know good from evil—they were much like little children, who might understand that something had been forbidden, but not have the moral sense or insight to perceive why this was so, or why disobedience was such a grave matter.		{{misinformation\|The intent of this distinction is not to "minimize the severity" of Adam's act, but to high-light the fact that someone without a knowledge of good and evil is not morally culpable in the same sense as someone who has knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve did not know good from evil—they were much like little children, who might understand that something had been forbidden, but not have the moral sense or insight to perceive why this was so, or why disobedience was such a grave matter.
Line 118:		Line 118:
	The authors claim that Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression," and that Paul stated that death was the result of Adam's ''sin'', not ''transgression.''		The authors claim that Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression," and that Paul stated that death was the result of Adam's ''sin'', not ''transgression.''
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
	#*{{s\|\|DC\|132\|26}}		#{{s\|\|DC\|132\|26}}
	*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|12}}		*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|12}}
	*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|15}}		*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|15}}

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=
\n#)

2017-10-13T03:35:05Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|authorsources=\n* +|authorsources=<br>\n#)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:35, 13 October 2017
Line 32:		Line 32:
	The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward." They claim that the decision by Adam and Eve to disobey the Father has been "continually commended" by LDS leaders.		The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward." They claim that the decision by Adam and Eve to disobey the Father has been "continually commended" by LDS leaders.
	\|authorsources=<br>		\|authorsources=<br>
			#<br>
	*{{s\|\|Moses\|5\|10-11}}		*{{s\|\|Moses\|5\|10-11}}
	*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3:74. Smith notes that the Garden of Eden was located on the American continent.		*Joseph Fielding Smith, ''Doctrines of Salvation'' 3:74. Smith notes that the Garden of Eden was located on the American continent.
Line 82:		Line 83:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods." The authors conclude: "is it wise to trust a promise from one who is called the 'father of lies'?"		Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods." The authors conclude: "is it wise to trust a promise from one who is called the 'father of lies'?"
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{s\|\|Genesis\|3\|3-5}}		#*{{s\|\|Genesis\|3\|3-5}}
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|The Bible makes it clear that this ''was'' the truth, since God said so only a few verses later: "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" ({{b\|\|Genesis\|3\|22}}). If the authors wish to claim that Satan lied in this case, they must also accept that ''God'' then lied. Satan's lie was that spiritual and physical death would not result from partaking of the fruit.		{{misinformation\|The Bible makes it clear that this ''was'' the truth, since God said so only a few verses later: "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" ({{b\|\|Genesis\|3\|22}}). If the authors wish to claim that Satan lied in this case, they must also accept that ''God'' then lied. Satan's lie was that spiritual and physical death would not result from partaking of the fruit.
Line 94:		Line 95:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience." The authors claim that this contradicts {{s\|1\|John\|3\|4}}, which states that "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."		According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience." The authors claim that this contradicts {{s\|1\|John\|3\|4}}, which states that "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{Ensign1\|author=Dallin H. Oaks\|date=November 1993\|article=The Great Plan of Happiness\|start=73}} {{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=3c4b425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}}		#*{{Ensign1\|author=Dallin H. Oaks\|date=November 1993\|article=The Great Plan of Happiness\|start=73}} {{link\|url=http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=3c4b425e0848b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD}}
	}}		}}
	{{misinformation\|The intent of this distinction is not to "minimize the severity" of Adam's act, but to high-light the fact that someone without a knowledge of good and evil is not morally culpable in the same sense as someone who has knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve did not know good from evil—they were much like little children, who might understand that something had been forbidden, but not have the moral sense or insight to perceive why this was so, or why disobedience was such a grave matter.		{{misinformation\|The intent of this distinction is not to "minimize the severity" of Adam's act, but to high-light the fact that someone without a knowledge of good and evil is not morally culpable in the same sense as someone who has knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve did not know good from evil—they were much like little children, who might understand that something had been forbidden, but not have the moral sense or insight to perceive why this was so, or why disobedience was such a grave matter.
Line 116:		Line 117:
	\|claim=		\|claim=
	The authors claim that Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression," and that Paul stated that death was the result of Adam's ''sin'', not ''transgression.''		The authors claim that Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression," and that Paul stated that death was the result of Adam's ''sin'', not ''transgression.''
	\|authorsources=		\|authorsources=<br>
	*{{s\|\|DC\|132\|26}}		#*{{s\|\|DC\|132\|26}}
	*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|12}}		*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|12}}
	*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|15}}		*{{s\|\|Romans\|5\|15}}

RogerNicholson at 02:59, 6 July 2017

2017-07-06T02:59:07Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:59, 6 July 2017
Line 16:		Line 16:
	\|H=Response to claims made in Mormonism 101, "Chapter 5: The Fall"		\|H=Response to claims made in Mormonism 101, "Chapter 5: The Fall"
	\|S=		\|S=
	\|L1=		\|L1=Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"
			\|L2=Response to claim: 74 - "Contrary to the LDS concept of the fall, the Bible shows that this event was the result of disobeying God"
			\|L3=Response to claim: 74 - "If transgression was a positive and it was a blessing to leave Eden, why does Genesis 3:24 say that God had to drive them out?"
			\|L4=Response to claim: 74-75 - Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods"
			\|L5=Response to claim: 76 - According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience"
			\|L6=Response to claim: 76-77 -Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression"
			\|L7=Response to claim: 77 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that "Satan told the truth in the Garden of Eden," as opposed to Christianity, which believes that "Satan deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden"
	}}		}}
	</onlyinclude>		</onlyinclude>
	~~==Quick Navigation==~~
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"\|Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 74 - "Contrary to the LDS concept of the fall, the Bible shows that this event was the result of disobeying God"\|Response to claim: 74 - "Contrary to the LDS concept of the fall, the Bible shows that this event was the result of disobeying God"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 74 - "If transgression was a positive and it was a blessing to leave Eden, why does Genesis 3:24 say that God had to drive them out?"\|Response to claim: 74 - "If transgression was a positive and it was a blessing to leave Eden, why does Genesis 3:24 say that God had to drive them out?"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 74-75 - Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods"\|Response to claim: 74-75 - Mormons believe that "Satan was telling the truth" when he told Eve that she "shall be as gods"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 76 - According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience"\|Response to claim: 76 - According to the authors, Mormons distinguish between "sin" and "transgression" in order to "minimize the severity of Adam's disobedience"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 76-77 -Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression"\|Response to claim: 76-77 -Joseph Smith equated "sin" and "transgression"]]
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 77 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that "Satan told the truth in the Garden of Eden," as opposed to Christianity, which believes that "Satan deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden"\|Response to claim: 77 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that "Satan told the truth in the Garden of Eden," as opposed to Christianity, which believes that "Satan deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden"]]
	~~{{parabreak}}~~

	==Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"==		==Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"==

RogerNicholson at 02:58, 6 July 2017

2017-07-06T02:58:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:58, 6 July 2017
Line 1:		Line 1:
	{{FairMormon}}		{{FairMormon}}
	{{H1		{{H1
	\|L=~~{{check}}~~		\|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5
	\|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 5: The Fall"		\|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 5: The Fall"
	\|S=		\|S=
Line 10:		Line 10:
	\|>=[[../Chapter 6\|Chapter 6: Apostasy]]		\|>=[[../Chapter 6\|Chapter 6: Apostasy]]
	}}		}}
			<!-- INSERT CHART HERE -->
			<onlyinclude>
			{{H2
			\|L=Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5
			\|H=Response to claims made in Mormonism 101, "Chapter 5: The Fall"
			\|S=
			\|L1=
			}}
			</onlyinclude>
	==Quick Navigation==		==Quick Navigation==
	*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"\|Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"]]		*[[Criticism of Mormonism/Books/Mormonism 101/Chapter 5#Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"\|Response to claim: 72-74 - The authors claim that Mormons believe that the Fall of Adam was a "fall upward"]]

FairMormonBot: Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|H1 +|H)

2017-06-26T20:48:03Z

Bot: Automated text replacement (-\|H1 +|H)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:48, 26 June 2017
Line 2:		Line 2:
	{{H1		{{H1
	\|L={{check}}		\|L={{check}}
	\|H1=Response to claims made in "Chapter 5: The Fall"		\|H=Response to claims made in "Chapter 5: The Fall"
	\|S=		\|S=
	\|L1=		\|L1=